Brian McLaren
I thought maybe it was time for a different thread. Plus, Bill asked Brian (Miller) about his take on the Bible being revelation or not. Brian spoke of it as a "journey from Creation to consumation." While I don't want to speak for Brian, I believe this comes from McLaren's book, "The Story We Find Ourselves In." So, Bill, you will have to read that one after reading "A New Kind of Christian." :) (Yes, I believe it is revelation of "the story" that we are a "find ourselves in").
And... speaking of McLaren books, I wondered, how many of you have read his books, and what do you think?
I have read: 'Reinventing Your Church' (republished later as "The Church on the Other Side"), 'A New Kind of Christian,' 'The Story We Find Ourselves In,' and am currently reading 'A Generous Orthodoxy.'
I read "Reinventing" in the late 90's, and it spoke to me. I didn't know who McLaren was then, but I liked what he had to say. I also really liked 'A New Kind of Christian' and probably my favorite was 'the Story We Find Ourselves In'. I have been afraid to read the third in the trilogy (for some unexplained reason). I like what I've read so far of 'Generous Orthodoxy'. My concern has always been that I am not knowledgeable enough about history and theology and he has some pretty radical thoughts. But what I know is... he makes things make sense to me.
So, any thoughts on McLaren? How about the other books he's written? Any thoughts or recommendations... comments...?
posted by dan at 12:43 PM
8 Comments:
I have a "Bible-inspired" blog, "Significant Moments." It can be accessed from my main site (above).
So, Dan H and Brian,
What does "journey from Creation to consumation" mean?
Bill,
I'm sure Brian can explain it better. I would say the journey from Creation to consumation is... "life" or even, "(H)history".
That's what "The Story We Find Ourselves In" is all about. It's the story of God's love for the world, from beginning to end, and how we fit into the picture. So, I guess, it's how McLaren thinks God reveals himself to us through the Bible, and invites us into the journey.
You really should just read the book. :)
I don't want to approach this backward, but postmoderns are masters at deconstruction. The Bible is most definitely God's Word, but we have approached it in a modern way.
For instance, I want to preach about men and women and marriage in a few months. There really isn't much in the Bible about how to have a strong marriage. There are a ton of bad examples. Paul urges us to stay single. The Proverbs tell us to live on the roof rather than with an annoying wife. Ephesians 5 is pretty strong about submission and sacrifical love, but Paul finishes with "But I'm talking about the church not marriage." Yet we want the Scripture to be inerrant so that we can confidently teach 5 ways of being a good spouse.
The major Bible characters are more famous for their shortcomings than for their faith. It is a story of the journey of humanity in their relationship with God. Perhaps it is the honesty that makes me believe the Bible even more.
We define salvation as praying a somewhat specific prayer of repentance and having a somewhat orthodox theology, but really what Jesus asked was "Follow me." The Bible is the story of many who attempted exactly that. It is a guide in that sense of reading about others attempting the same purpose -- to follow God through their own lives.
I'd agree with Dan H that The Story We Find Ourselves In does a fantastic job laying that out. I too was hesitant to read his final book in the trilogy, The Last Word and the Word After That, but I did read it and it was very good.
To put at rest any uneasiness, my view of the Bible lifts it in fact to a higher position than in my previous modern view. Though it was inerrant, I didn't find it as useful because it didn't lay out what I wanted it to lay out. Now that I understand the power of story (a true story, not fiction though fiction can also have tremendous power), I appreciate the Bible so much more. I don't want to memorize verses. There is no context! I want to be able to retell stories, even if I miss a few of the details.
Dan,
I will read the book. I promise. But, there is so much that is so important that I already want to get to. It will take time for me to get there.
Tell me: Which, in your opinion, should I read first?
A GENEROUS ORTHDOXY,
or,
THE STORY WE FIND OURSELVES IN?
Brian,
You are correct about postmodernists being masters of deconstruction. And I'm still not certain I'm one of them, though I trashed modernism a long, long time ago.
I’m trying very hard to sort this out. I came to my crisis with modernism through Soren Kierkegaard who became, many decades after his death, the Father of Existentialism. I've abandoned modernism for my own post-evangelical version of existentialism. And I’m still trying to understand the contours of the border between my existentialism and the postmodernism that the Emerging Church embraces. And that's hard to do because all of the Emerging Church stuff I've read defines itself as a rejection of modernism.
My critique of the modern view of Scripture is just as harsh as the postmodern view, as far as I can tell. But, I'm realizing that it is different. It comes from a different place
Conversing with you guyz here benefits me—and hopefully it will benefit you too. Because I came to my convictions through existentialism and you guyz came directly from modernism, I’m learning tons from you.
One thing you’re helping me with is understanding the difference between what I have come to believe and the essential tenets of postmodernism, though I still have a very long way to go.
As I read McLaren, I find myself being uncomfortable in ways that surprise me. And, I think it’s because he himself made his jump from an oppressive form of modernism to postmodernism. His 'Neo' character seems to have a chip on his shoulder that I don't have. Perhaps that's because I've been out of modernism for so long--nearly 20 years--and the newness is gone for me.
Anyway, reading your posts really helps me because I doubt I’ll have this kind of opportunity to converse with "Neo."
--------------------
You said: “To put at rest any uneasiness, my view of the Bible lifts it in fact to a higher position than in my previous modern view.”
Preach it, bro!
The modern view of Scripture is confining and oppressive. It squeezes life from that which is, as 2 Timothy says, is both God-breathed and useful and has been given to us so that we may be equipped to do every good work. NOT so we can figure out perfect doctrine and club others over the head with it.
Excuse me, please, if I pick your brain about your postmodern view of Scripture. And, don't ever suppose that I'm clinging to a modern view. (That view began to crumble in my own mind about five years before you and I met.)
The postmodernism you understand and have internalized is just a shade or two away from what I have come to believe. And, I still don't get it.
Bill,
You didn't ask me but you asked which you should read first -- Generous Orthodoxy or The Story We Find Ourselves In. They are two completely different books.
In Generous Orthodoxy, McLaren attempts to lay out some groundwork in some 20 or so areas.
In The Story We Find Ourselves In, which I thought was the best of the trilogy, Neo and the pastor go to the Galapogos Islands and lead an evolutionist lady, dying of cancer, to Christ. The major focus was to give her the story in a way she could find herself a part of it.
One is non-fiction, the other is fiction. I enjoyed the fiction much more than Generous Orthodoxy. The fiction stretches and makes you think about possibilities. G.O. gives you some foundational thoughts that you can discuss and/or argue.
Bill,
Brian gives a good picture of the two books (Gen. Orthodoxy & The Story We Find Ourselves In). I would recommend "The Story We Find Ourselves In" first, since you are reading "New Kind of Christian." It's probably my favorite, also.
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