Tony Campolo on the Colbert Report
posted by dan at 9:18 AM
CGGC in an Emerging World
The world is changing rapidly. Postmodern thinking is increasing in the west and the East is becoming part of the Global community. Many in the Churches of God General Conference are interested in what church will look like as fresh expressions in the 21st century. This blog has been encouraged by the CGGC but in no way reflects the official thinking of the denomination. It is a place for free flow of thought and conversation.
Friday, October 05, 2007
10 Comments:
Ken,
I removed your comment here because I felt it was insensitive, rude, and obnoxious. Tony is a person, just like everyone else here. You can have disagreements with people, but I don't think you want everyone telling you what they think of you when they see your name. Besides, you are not Lord of this blog and it's not up to you what is or is not acceptable here. I don't want to start something with you, but if you care to discuss this further you can click on my name in the sidebar and find my email address there. I, for one, would appreciate if you could show a little more respect for those who might not agree with you.
Dan,
What you did was censorship.
There was nothing insensitive, rude, or obnoxious about the post.
I read and reread that post to ensure there was nothing demeaning about it.
It was biblically sound.
I quoted the Scripture and I shared things that any of us can go out and find for ourselves about Tony Campolo.
Tony Campolo does not speak for me. Quite honestly I find myself more than a little offended by those who would put him out as someone that we should listen to.
I'm sorry that you feel that people aren't equipped to make their own decisions.
Ken Zitsch
Ken,
Had you just stuck to what you didn't agree with it would have been one thing, but I felt you made it personal. At the least you were leaning towards bringing his character into question.
And to me, your comment made it sound like YOU don't think anyone else is capable of making decisions for themselves.
Perhaps I did overreact to your first comment, but one mistake many people make on the internet is they think it's okay to take pot shots at people - or rather, at people's *names* - and they don't realize they really are people; and that the same rules that apply to personal conversations apply here as well. And trying to prove a point as biblically sound or not is no excuse to be unkind.
I'm not saying you cannot comment or give your opinions, Ken. But, again, I would appreciate it if you would show a little more respect for people you might not agree with.
Peace & blessings,
Dan
In my opinion, Ken's post was fine until he said, "Tony Campolo would do better to READ the book instead of pandering to his constituencies (as well as those who wouldn't give him the time of day if he weren't saying the things that they want him too). Shame on him for making common cause with those who would seek to make a mockery of our faith."
This was inappropriate. It was an expressed opinion up to this point. Then it became something inappropriate.
And why when conservative people disagree do they always express the notion that those they disagree with don't read their Bible? This is an unsupported and naive claim.
I have not always agreed with Tony Campolo but he has impacted my life and ministry in a significant way and I am grateful for his ministry.
The bottom line for me is fellows is this:
If you cannot articulate what it is that makes a Christian (a Christian),
you have no place putting yourself out as a spokesperson for the faith.
What is it:
For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.
Thus: I am a sinner! We are all sinners, we need to be saved.
How is it that I am saved?
That if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead,
YOU WILL BE SAVED.
There is nothing more
There is nothing less
It is by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourself, it is the gift of God through Jesus Christ.
Christianity is:
1. by faith only
2. through grace
3. and the Bible is our rule of faith and practice.
That is not CGGC, that is not American, that is not Protestant, and it is not open to negotiation.
Ken Zitsch
campolo wasn't asked in the video "how is a Christian saved?" I thought he did fantastic considering the turf he was on.
-matt conner
Matt,
Welcome about, man! Great to hear from you. And good point.
Make that "welcome aboard" not "about". :)
Ken,
Since your last paragraph in your last post is a general reference I thought I would chime in even thought I'm not cggc. Your last line about it being not open to negotiation, while true, does not mean that there is no disagreement about what it means. Eugene Peterson's observation that our society does not reflect the purported number of conversions over the years is accurate in my opinion.
You correctly refer to Romans 10:9. It would be nice to believe that those who confess with their mouths really believed it in their hearts. However, I think we have a lot of people who may be confessing without really believing. They see it as a check list, if you will, of things they need to do in order to receive eternal life.
I believe this is the tension that James deals with and the tension we still feel today when we hear people arguing about grace versus works. Granted there are those who do indeed put there stock in works but there are others who simply see works as a natural expression of their belief. To be a disciple is to learn what the master knows, do what the master does, and do even greater things than the master does. That was Jesus' expectation.
I bring this up because the formula you present can be, and I believe has been, grossly misunderstood. You started your post by saying, "If you cannot articulate what it is that makes a Christian (a Christian),you have no place putting yourself out as a spokesman for the faith." I suggest it is not as easy to articulate as your post. We do a disservice if we do not articulate the true cost of being a disciple. You can't just say it, you really have to believe it.
I doubt you disagree. I'm merely pointing out that you will find people who are very concerned that we have many in our churches today who have said the right words and obeyed the rules but who really have no personal relationship with Jesus. This is an obstacle to new believers and young people who see it as hypocrisy. I know what you mean in your post but, to tell you the truth, it sets my teeth on edge when I read it because it doesn't address this issue.
Peace,
Tom
Tom,
Excellent post in your response to my last one.
In everything that you said I find myself in agreement with.
You said:
"you will find people who are very concerned that we have many in our churches today who have said the right words and obeyed the rules but who really have no personal relationship with Jesus."
I agree with you wholeheartedly, and I would humbly submit:
This is at the heart of what I perceive to be many of the difficult issues that the church faces today.
Whose fault is it?
I would submit to you that it is my fault as a supposed preacher and teacher of God's flock!
What do we need to do about it?
I'm not convinced that the problem is theological. Everything that you spelled out in your last post (that I agree with), is clearly spelled out in the Bible.
I cannot see how it matters if you are modern or postmodern, the Bible says exactly what God intends it to say.
I think that the problem is elsewhere, and that is why I would agree with my brother Bill that those of us who are teachers in the Church must be held accountable for what we teach.
Here in the conference that I serve in, we have different commissions. We are currently in the process (as I understand) to put effort into making Pastors more aware of their leadership roles.
I would also advocate empowering our church vocations commission-
perhaps after a few years of ministry we need to revisit them and see how our perspective has changed as a Pastor.
Our Church and Pastor commission could be empowered to look at the results of a Pastor's ministry. Not necessarily in dollars and sense or buildings or any other kind of subjective criteria like that, but where is the church that they are serving in a spiritual sense.
Those results could be evaluated in an interview.
We must get away from the notion that success is measured by numbers. Ultimately it is important to remember (as my sister Fidelia did in a previous thread) that not everybody who says Lord, Lord, will get into the kingdom of heaven. Who does or who doesn't isn't my concern, the point is that not everyone will.
Success and growth comes by this formula:
"Seek ye first the Kingdom of God, and His righteousness, and all these other things will be added unto you."
Just a few thoughts.
Ken Zitsch
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