One perspective on the emerging church
I found this on Will Willimon's blog. A simple question and an honest answer (of course those who read here know that Brian McLaren is not THE spokesperson - no offense to him). But I like Will's attitude and perspective. This is taken directly from his blog:
A comment raised about the emerging church:
"I'm not a minister, but just your ordinary lay Methodist who has just now been made aware of this thing called the emerging church movement -- and I'm not sure how I feel about it, one way or the other. Would you feel comfortable addressing this topic some time?"
Response:
I'm just an ordinary Methodist too! I know little firsthand about the so-called emergent church. Mostly what I know is from the books by Brian MacLauren. However, what I read I like, such as the Emergent church's ability to reach young adults, its stress upon the sacraments, its stress upon a recovery of the tradition of the faith, etc. I have a couple of churches that are exploring some of this emergent material. Sounds interesting to me. Thanks for writing. Wish I had more to share.
Will Willimon
posted by dan at 12:31 PM
12 Comments:
If I were a Methodist, particularly after having read one or two of Brian McLaren's works,
I would be very concerned that one of the more vocal leaders in my denomination had only this to say about those writings.
Jesus never tells us in Scripture that the ends justifies the means. We are not nearly as capable of keeping the good and throwing away the bad as we would like to think we are.
Ken,
Understanding that I have expressed my own concern about McLaren several times on this blog, what has McLaren written that chagrins you?
bill
If you have talked about it somewhere else Bill, then I'm sure it has been coverered thoroughly.
We don't really need to rehash it anymore here.
Your concern as a fellow Pastor should suffice for mine.
By no means, Ken.
I recall asking a question about one section in A NEW KIND OF CHRISTIAN and attacking one chapter in A GENEROUS ORTHODOXY.
So, fire away. I'd just ask you to remember that McLaren doesn't speak for everyone here. Nor does he represent all of the Emerging Church.
bill
The issue here Bill for me is the Methodist Church.
As to what part of the "emerging church" that Brian McLaren speaks for,
I'm very sure that remains to be seen.
I'm not as convinced as you.
You know, the reason I stated "of course those who read here know that BM is not THE spokesperson" was not to slight McLaren, but because I didn't want this to be a discussion about him. Even if Will was basing his opinions on a couple of BM's books, certainly he has read and heard from others - BM cites others in his books, and many of his thoughts are not necessarily anything new.
My point in sharing this was the line by WW about liking "the emergent church's ability to reach young adults, its stress upon the sacraments, it's stress upon a recovery of the tradition of the faith, etc.". I would think WW may have some issues with some things, but he also points out positives. Can we not get beyond someone's name in order to take a look at what might actually be happening?
Ken, why are you so untrusting of the Spirit's ability to work in the church today? Was the only time people could get it right 200-400 years ago? I think not.
Quoted from Dan:
"Ken, why are you so untrusting of the Spirit's ability to work in the church today? Was the only time people could get it right 200-400 years ago? I think not."
Brother: I will discern for myself the Spirit at work in the church today. When I see Him, I will know Him, and He will put me at ease. He will introduce Himself openly and plainly and not hide behind any rhetoric. He will bring the dark into the open places and what is in the light will be exposed for what it is. He will not identify Himself by what He is not, He will identify Himself as the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world. I am perfectly content to see how it all plays out, how about you?
I understand also that The Spirit does what He wants. As Jesus said to Nicodemus "Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit." The Spirit is not bound by any suspicions or lack of trust that I might have.
By the way, when He advocates and counsels those of us who are sinners-there is no reason to believe that it will not resemble the way He has for 2000 years. There really is nothing or nobody new under the sun. Modern-postmodern-premodern: The Word knows them all. He will dwell among His own and they will either accept or reject them. "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."
I do not know what the church was like 200-400 years ago. Neither do you. I was not there and can't speak to the issue. If it was a place where the gospel was spoken and sinners were converted, then I would have wanted to be there. And it needs to be said that the modern concerns for worship, missiology, and the ordinances are the same for us all, and your's are not any different from anybody else's (including mine). They are subordinate however to the overriding issue of salvation. The same Spirit is in me that would be in you. The main purpose of the church is the same today as it was 200-400 years ago, or for that matter, two millenia ago.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
We'll pray that purpose continues to be upfront and obvious particularly here in the CGGC. At this point in time, I have no reason to believe it will be otherwise.
"Brother: I will discern for myself the Spirit at work in the church today."
"...for myself...?"
Wow, Ken! How postmodern of you! Maybe these Emerging types are rubbing off on you after all.
I wish I had the confidence that I would be able to discern the work of the Spirit when He arrives. My fear is that He will be working right where I am and I will be afraid to join Him. I think that happened in the Early Church also. It may be just my perspective but I think when the elders heard what was happening in Antioch they sent Barnabas--to stop it. Fortunately, he encouraged it.
I think that many churches today are also near sighted when it comes to the work of the Spirit.
One of the reasons I appreciate this blog is the freedom to explore ways in which the Spirit MAY be working even if it rocks my socks.
"I wish I had the confidence that I would be able to discern the work of the Spirit when He arrives. My fear is that He will be working right where I am and I will be afraid to join Him."
Well said, Lew.
Me too.
Thanks.
ditto what Bill said.
"MacLauren"
I'm always amazed at how many ways people manage to mangle Brian's last name. The one I see most often is McClaren. MacLauren's a new one to me though. :)
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