Welcome to emerging cGgc
Here is the first post from Sept 2005 from this blog.
Wayne Boyer, Executive Director of the Churches of God General Conference, said in his weekly "It's Friday but Sunday is coming..." newsletter that efforts were being made to create a dialogue for an emerging/postmodern conversation in the CGGC. I offered to create this blog to provide such a space. Wayne said other efforts will also be made to create such a space. I'll keep this space up as long as it is useful and fruitful.
If you want to post to this blog, simply send me an email at bedrock3@gmail.com, and I'll set you up immediately. Everyone is free to comment. I just ask that you be gracious with your words. This can be a sensitive subject. I am looking forward to this conversation.
Wayne told me two things that never came to fruition. One was, "other efforts will be made to create such a space." My effort was to be a temporary effort. The second one was that they would set up an emailing system outside of the CGGC so as not to give any endorsement to this blog. That also never occurred. I'm not upset by these inactions, but they do lend to misunderstanding. I've also stated more than once that I regret calling it "emerging cGgc" and would have liked to have called it something with the term "missional" instead. This would have stopped all the people frustrated with McLaren from linking all his work with the thoughts on this blog.
So to answer Ken's question in one of the myriad comments on the previous post, this is my blog. I have several blogs and they are all on one blogger account, so I couldn't give this blog to somebody if I wanted to (which I have wanted to).
Though the CGGC has not endorsed this blog, Wayne and now Ed have encouraged me to continue this blog. I have made it open to as many who are interested. There came a point where some guidelines were demanded of me, so I made up some guidelines which are linked from the sidebar.
There will be a day soon (at least by the end of the year) where I will make some changes to this blog, which could include ending it, moving it, or modifying it.
Labels: Denomination, Missional
posted by Brian at 2:19 PM
18 Comments:
Pastors shouldn't blog.
This is pretty much the view I've come to (independent of this post). I've been thinking through this for awhile and finally have the nerve to write it here.
Now if I can only muster the courage to click the "Publish Your Comment" button...
If that is true then there is something wrong with the way the role of pastor is currently structured within the church that makes this so.
Brent,
Why on earth would you make such a thing? Furthermore, I am shocked that such a statement would come from you of all people! You are a sharp well-educated guy. If pastors should not blog, then that includes you. I think you do fine on the blog and you should blog; so do the majority of the people on here and on other blogs I've visited. Could you clarify why pastors should not blog, in your opinion? Thanks, Brent.
-George C. Jensen
Enola, PA
Before Brent replies (which he might or might not do, as per his view), perhaps we can list a few reasons why pastors shouldn't blog:
1. Blogging exposes us to the whole world, and unintended comments can be forever preserved in the ether Jesus told us that we "will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word" we say (Matt. 12:36). This, in addition to the admonition to teachers in James 3:1, scares me. Even though there are many benefits to this form of long-distance communication, we must be extra-careful about what we say and how we say it.
2. A pastor might be tempted to say things on a blog that he might not say to his own parishioners. This isn't just about making negative comments, it can also include the danger of spending more time on the 'net than on face-to-face fellowship. Granted, we potentially can communicate much more with other 'net users in our congregation than we might have 10 years ago, but I have major reservations about the idea of "e-church." There are still many in our churches who do not use the 'net, and who therefore are shut out of these conversations. Pastors should not ignore them.
3. Many times, a blog is like a personal newsletter: "Here's what's happening in my life today." At worst this can become narcissistic, as I focus on MY feelings and ideas to the exclusion of genuine conversation with others.
4. When we use a forum like "emergingcGgc" for our conversation, we don't know how much thought goes into various responses. In the most recent exchange, Bill mentioned the possible discrepancy between those who are careful and those who are off-the-cuff. This is a basic flaw in all non-personal communication, but for pastors the problem is especially dangerous. Whether we want to admit it or not, we represent our congregations, and they might not appreciate (let alone share) some of our opinions we express a bit too carelessly.
Obviously, there are benefits to blogging, and all of these concerns can be rectified by simply being careful, humble, and thoughtful. The problem isn't the medium. It's the big mouth I was born with!
I wondered if Brent was being a tad sarcastic. But, whatever the case, I hope this blog doesn’t disappear. And that’s easy for me to say because it’s not mine. Again, I think Brian deserves our thanks for stepping up to the plate and not only starting this thing, but managing it as well.
I know there will be times when disagreements occur – just like there are times when it happens in face to face relationships. I still like the blog format as likened to meeting around a table. Sometimes everyone has a good time; at other times the discussion can get a little out of hand and it needs reigning in. Regardless of the form, human interaction requires a certain amount of patience and respect for the sake of the community, and society as a whole. So I would hate to see this blog stop just because of recent events.
I admit, there are times when I don’t feel comfortable sharing my thoughts here – especially lately. To be honest, I think there are a lot of questions for those of us in the CGGC right now. But I happen to care more about helping people come to faith in Jesus, or grow in their faith, than I do about whether or not I have my credentials questioned. Maybe I’m naïve to think that.
I like this blog and I believe there are others who never comment here who do too. In fact, I’ll end this with a portion of a message I received last week. I hope it encourages us to think about what we’re doing here.
From a reader of this blog:
I think the emerging blog is a great place for discussion and is the beginning of a lot of good changes. Ideas are being exchanged and I hate to see them being shot down.
I am just one member of an amazing CGGC church but I want to encourage you, Brian, Bill, Tammie and everyone else to keep being that example to us. To keep encouraging us to think outside of the box. To take a step back and examine what words like 'evangelical' have become to our society and then step back in to redefine those essential concepts for our world. What does it mean to be a follower of Christ - a Christian - a word I'm hesitant to use sometimes because of the negative connotations it holds in the not-so-Christian world.
The EmergingCGGC message may not always be popular with some Church folks who like the control they have, but I believe it is the message that will change the world.
Let me clarify my statement that “Pastors shouldn’t blog.” It’s not a sarcastic comment, it’s my honest view; but it is a comment that is in need of some clarification.
I differentiate blogs that are designed to serve as a forum for discussion from those that serve as nothing more than a site for self-expression. Many blogs, such as this one (emergingcGgc), serve as a place for conversation and the sharing of ideas. Obviously, there are difficulties encountered in carrying on a constructive conversation online, but it can be done – and has a positive place in the online community.
Also, there are blogs that are an extension of a church’s ministry. I see that as different as well. There has been thought put into the blog as a form of outreach.
But many blogs are nothing more than online diaries. I completely agree with Ben when he wrote, “Many times, a blog is like a personal newsletter: ‘Here's what's happening in my life today." At worst this can become narcissistic, as I focus on MY feelings and ideas to the exclusion of genuine conversation with others.’” It is this type of blog that receives my harshest criticisms.
In regards to Mike’s comment, I do think that “there is something wrong with the way the role of pastor is currently structured within the church.” Too much of the work of a pastor is an independent exercise – sermons are prepared alone, lessons are prepared alone. Honestly, there is very little accountability for a pastor. Yes, there is the church board. Yes, there is the denomination. But, really, who has the final say on what a pastor teaches or preaches upon? The pastor. In theory, I think all of us would agree that the Christian life is not an individualistic exercise. And yet, spending more time alone to express our own opinions does very little that promotes our theology.
I can already anticipate a reply: “But what about the guidance of the Holy Spirit?” Or a quote from I Corinthians 4:4: “My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me.” Or another, "But the internet isn't an isolated expression, it's an online COMMUNITY." If this is an opinion, you'll have to convince me that any of these disputes what I am writing.
My point is that pastors who blog often promote an approach to life that contradicts his/her very beliefs. And the saddest part is this person is often unaware of the consequences.
I can say more, but Ben did a great job outlining some concerns.
George,
If I am misinterpreting you, please correct me. You write "You are a sharp well-educated guy." Are you suggesting that my education requires that I view blogging as a positive thing?
One of my major concerns with our culture is that so many believe that everythin new is better. We have little regards for what has gone before us.
Yes, I am educated. But that actually causes me to be more suspect of the blogosphere and not less. Just because it is still a fairly new creation doesn't mean we need to embrace it.
Brent,
I appreciate you further explaining your comment "Pastors shouldn't blog." However, I am afraid I am even more confused now (which is likely due to my lack of understanding more than your inability to explain). It seems to me that you are saying blogs like this one are ok - even "having a positive place"; but that pastors shouldn't have personal blogs. So if this is the case, can I ask why you shared that here? I guess I don't understand the relevance. Do you feel that the pastors who participate here who also have personal blogs are what is causing the problem? Just trying to understand.
Brent & Ben,
Would you say that journaling is wrong for pastors too; or keeping a diary?
Dan,
No, I don't think journaling is wrong at all. For me, it's all about the form and not the content. Keeping a diary or a journal has great value. It's the form that we put it in that creates problems. Journals and diaries are private forms of communication and should remain that. There is no need for the world to have access to them.
Not everyone agrees with me, I know.
You're probably right - my comments may have been out of place. Either way, I wasn't trying to single anyone out.
Gang,
I know that I am waaaaaaaaaaaaaay behind in the converstion. But, for now:
Mike and Brent,
"In regards to Mike’s comment, I do think that “there is something wrong with the way the role of pastor is currently structured within the church.” Too much of the work of a pastor is an independent exercise – sermons are prepared alone, lessons are prepared alone."
Right on, bros!
I've been thinking of starting a whole thread on that sentiment for some time. And, may do that soon.
bill
Regarding my initial comment. I was thinking more in terms of transparency and authenticity in your relationship with your congregation. If you would be tempted to say something on your blog that you wouldn't say to one of your member's faces, then perhaps you need to work on being more open and honest in person too. Why the power distance between pastors and congregants? Why hold yourself back from authentic relationships with them? Why put on a mask and refuse to be real?
My solution is not to do less blogging, but to do more authentic communicating across the board, both online and in person.
Mike,
I agree with you about the need to be authentic across the board -- online and in person. Unfortunately, however, not all congregations can handle faulty pastors. Granted, people acknowledge that no one is perfect -- including the pastor -- but too many of us have been burned by lack of forgiveness and unrealistic demands to risk too much transparency.
I remember a one-on-one meeting with an elder at my first pastorate that didn't go very well. I had come out of seminary with a "let's be open with each other" idealism, and in this meeting I shared some of my shortcomings as a pastor and as a Christian. Mind you, nothing I said was earth-shaking ... pretty mild stuff, actually. I expected a reciprocal response, but got the opposite. He was visibly shocked at my admission of weakness, and he closed up on me. Our relationship wasn't the same after that, and he left the church soon afterward. I learned a hard lesson that day, and undoubtedly I've been too guarded since then as a result.
My dad was in full-time ministry his entire career, and I never realized how isolated we were as a pastor's family until I became an adult. Only later in life did my parents develop close friendships within the congregation, friendships that came out more in their retirement than during active ministry. The clergy/laity divide is very powerful in many traditional churches, though we may yearn for it to be different. Now I understand why my dad stayed so close to his seminary friends, and why men in my church don't include me in their social lives. I'd like to be "one of the guys" sometimes, but to most of my congregation it doesn't matter if I'm wearing a tie (the extent of my formality) or a sweatshirt: I'm still the pastor.
I think things are changing, fortunately. The postmodern generation seems to appreciate authenticity and the clergy/laity divide seems to be breaking down. I don't think we should go to the extreme of a complete elimination of clergy -- I used to advocate that, but then I saw its consequences -- but a happy medium needs to happen.
Let me know how it works for you in a church plant. I suspect you don't have the baggage of past expectations that most of us traditional guys have to deal with, for which you can be thankful.
Blessings,
Ben
Yes, you're quite right Ben, which is why I originally said that there is something wrong. This is the way it is, but it's not the way it ought to be.
Not that I know what to do to fix it. It's not really like that in our church, but that's because we're a small, intimate community of friends, and I've worked hard since the beginning to eliminate any sense of power distance as the pastor. Our decision making is collaborative, our gatherings are interactive and participatory, and I'm constantly reminding folks in our Sunday morning discussion times (which substitutes for a sermon in a traditional church) that no one has to agree with me just because I'm the pastor - and they often don't! So I feel like we have created a pretty good atmosphere of authenticity among our group.
But I would have no idea how to replicate that within an existing church where the norms and patterns are already set. That would be a lot harder I think.
Mike, how do you, as Jesus did, preach with authority? what does that look like in your context?
I'm not Jesus Andrew. I don't have right to claim the same authority, and I wouldn't want to try. I do preach prophetically; I do give my opinions, often passionately; but the one thing I would never want to do as the pastor is say "This is the final word on the subject, no questioning, no discussion, stop thinking for yourselves."
Two more things:
Scripture also says to test everything, even (or especially) prophetic words. It doesn't make exceptions for prophetic words spoken by pastors. So that's what I expect my people to do.
And it also doesn't say that prophecy is a gift only given to the pastor, so why should I expect to be the only one who can speak "authoritatively"? We make room for that gift to arise in many people in the church, not just me.
Mike, in some aspects I agree with you. I wish more pastors would encourage people to double check what is being preached against Scripture. It is also good to be humble enough to admit when we don't have all the answers. It would be arrogant to think that we do.
I also appreciate your openess to the Holy Spirit speaking through other believers. God gives each of us insights for the benefit of others.
That being said, when you used teh term "never" it threw a red flag for me. I believe there are times to preach with an authority that says 'this is the answer'. Pastors should still be willing to discuss and encourage questions, but be able to stand firm in the truth.
For example, if someone wanted to discuss the claim that Jesus is the only way to God, great. What a wonderful opportunity. But a pastor should authoritatively teach that Jesus is the only way. I believe that Jesus not only modeled what to do, he modeled how to preach.
Dear Pastors:
Paul, in couseling Timothy, gives us a picture of how a pastor should teach, preach and behave.
I've been reading this thread with interest but have been hesitant to respond for 2 reasons:
* I don't want to offend; sometimes I'm not able to convey precisely what I'm trying to say thru words on a screen
* not being CGGC, I sometimes feel like its none of my business anyway
But, as I usually have a hard time keeping my opinions to myself....
Pastors SHOULD be "set apart"; and pastors should preach and teach with authority. Its Biblical.
Examine 2 things. How did the Apostles relate to the people? And, what instructions does Paul give to those chosen to lead?
It's clear that people saw the Apostles as somehow ... different....blest....chosen.......can't quite find the right word. But, hey, they did miracles; they preached with great passion and authority. Just because some people refused to believe or questioned what they said, did not change their approach.
Believers fell at their feet and even tried to worship them. Yes, they rebuked them. But it demonstrates the respect and awe the people had for them. An Apostle wasn't just "one of the boys".
Those Apostles then anointed others for the work of spreading the Gospel. They didn't say, "Go out and tentatively teach the truth". Paul clearly instructs Timothy that he KNOWS the truth---go teach it!
See I Tim 4:11 or 2 Tim 3:10 thru 4:4 for example. And I Tim 3:15.
There are many times I have specifically prayed for a pastor: "Lord, fill him with the Holy Spirit and enable him to preach with authority". Not makin that up; I really have. This is something I feel very strongly about.
If you are not sure of what you are preaching, why are you preaching it?????
That does not negate my responsibility to "test" what I'm being taught. But "you" should have the assurance that you know what you preach is truth.
With all respect to you who are anointed and set apart for the preaching of the Gospel,
Felicia Swavely
Post a Comment
<< Home