Discipleship
This is THE question to me: How do we disciple people?
What are the measures of discipleship?
How does discipleship occur?
What systems do we have to move people into discipleship relationships?
Evangelism is much more effective if you have a discipleship system to move to next. Leadership is multiplied if you are pulling leaders from a discipleship system.
We have just implemented a discipleship system in our church that I am fairly satisfied with.
And it started by answering the above questions. How would you answer the above questions (not just Bill, but everyone)? I will start a new thread for this question.
Labels: discipleship
posted by Brian at 8:43 AM
13 Comments:
I know this doesn't answer the questions Brian asked but it is amazing that only 1/2 hour ago I was talking to my colleague Dave Willams about this very issue. We have both been reading what I consider the best book I have read on this topic. It is written by Terry Wardle--"Outrageous Love, Transforming Power"--eight characteristics of Christ that every believer ought to exhibit.
One of my response's to the book is--Why haven't I heard this before? Of course the next step must be what am I going to do next?
I had actually just posted some questions about this same thing elsewhere right about the time Brian wrote this. These are some questions we've been trying to address with our church leaders. I think I got them from the book 'Simple Church'.
My questions were:
1. What is a disciple? ("A disciple is someone who ____, ____, ____, etc.")
2. How do we, as a church, get this to happen? (How did it happen in your life - how did you become a disciple?)
3. How do the programs and things our church does contribute to these things taking place?
4. Changes we might need to consider?
One thing Tom (who sometimes comments here) and I have discussed is "What is the lowest common denominator for someone to be considered a disciple?" I have a hard time with that question, but it's a good one.
As usual I have no answers, but sometimes I think it helps to keep trying to ask the questions in different ways. And keep seeking.
Lou, can you tell us the 8 characteristics?
since I'm new here I'll ask why this blog is supposedly so controversial. These seem like pretty normal conversations to me.
I don't think 'emergent' folks would be having a conversation about discipleship process but I could be mistaken.
I like this blog though...
Discipleship is moving from the head to the heart. From the book to its message. It is learning the ways of Jesus and following them.
What is the best way to do that? More Bible studies, or church programs? No... not for me ... contemplation, meditation and prayer ... transforming the heart ... Lectio Divina is a great place to start.
How do we measure it? They will know we are Christians by the love we have for one another.
Doug,
Good to hear from you.
And, well said.
I don't think there is ONE way to disciple people. I think it happens in all kinds of ways. I mean, I see some of our 5-year-olds in their Sunday School class and they just eat that stuff up (largely because of their teacher), and it does form their lives in many respects. By the same token, that approach won't work for someone of a different age, so they might need one-on-one mentoring. Some people are uncomfortable with one-on-one, but small groups work best for them. And I think some people actually do grow more in a larger group - like a Sunday worship gathering. For some it's around the dinner table with their family; for some it might be at the lunch table with friends; or at the bar, or in a car... or wherever. Probably even blogs and chat rooms.
I don't think we can throw out all programs, but at the same time, I don't think we can limit ourselves to programmed stuff either. I think it takes great intentionality, and I think it's a difficult task for pastors and church leaders to keep this at the forefront in our churches. But I believe we should.
Dan,
I agreed a lot with your last paragraph. The problem is that if we are not intentional about something, than discipleship is unlikely to happen.
My problem has been the desire not to have a program but something more organic has not been understood by the bulk of our church. That could be their problem or my fault. Actually, it is probably my fault. I've wanted something that would work for me and then for them as well. I haven't found that.
But we've started something new that I feel pretty good about. Not everybody participates in it. But it is something. We have some specific characteristics we are looking to develop in disciples.
"North American Christians are caught in a crisis of immaturity" is the first line of the book by Terry Wardle. He then goes on to identify eight characteristics of Christ that need to by nutured by the Holy Spirit. In response to Brian's request the eight characteristics are: Jesus rooted his IDENTITY in His position as God's Son.Jesus experienced INTIMACY with the Father. Jesus was committed to COMMUNITY as a context for growth. Jesus prioritized CHARACTER above behavior. Jesus responded properly to personal BROKENNESS. Jesus offered his wounds as a source of MINISTRY.
Jesus was EMPOWERED in life by the Holy Spirit. Jesus ministered with Kingdom AUTHORITY.
Wardle doesn't provide a curriculum in which this can be taught. His emphasis is on relationship. He also emphasises that it is not a matter of behavior modification but transformation.
NOte to Dan M. RE:controvery--Check the archives.
You guys have some great stuff here.
I agree with what Dan said: there's more than one way to disciple. The key is that the essence of discipleship is helping someone become what you already are. You are a model for them. Thus, they can only come as far as you yourself have gone.
There's a good post about this, check it out:
http://ministrytools.wordpress.com/2008/02/23/discipleship/
Hey Guys,
I have a few questions about discipleship. What are the goals we have for discipleship?
Is the purpose of Discipleship to direct people to love their salvation or to love their God?
Here is what I mean by that; If at the end of life, here on earth, we knew we would not enter into heaven, would we still follow Christ? Does the church in America promote loving salvation or loving God?
I have read one authors compelling thoughts on his love of God. "If at the end of my life, God were to lead me to the gates of hell, I love God enough to follow him there and stay." What would Christians in our churches say to this statement? Would I continue to walk with God if I knew at the end, hell still awaited me? I hope I love God, not myself, enough to answer yes.
I don't know if it is best to ask how we disciple until we define why we disciple.
I'm not sure the question of "What if Jesus were to lead me to hell?" would make sense to a lot of people. I understand what Rob is saying, but here's a question for Easter, "What if Jesus led me to the cross?" What if salvation led me to sacrifice all that I know? The story of Abraham sound familiar?
I agree that we should define discipleship. The site(which didn't fully show up on my browser)Brandon suggested, discipleship is defined as a ladder. Certainly on a ladder you have to take the steps in order. I don't agree with that. But at the same time, we often define discipleship as a "just follow God" kind of thing, which is also often ineffective.
Discipleship involves at least two people. How is the one to disciple the other? Certainly Jesus and the Holy Spirit are involved (Jeremiah 31:33, John 16). I'm not discounting that. But Paul said to model your lives after your leaders.
How is one to disciple another?
Here is what I'm using/developing. There are four areas of discipleship and there isn't necessarily any order to them and breakthroughs in one area can certainly affect depth in another area. I'll talk about that more later if there is interest.
I don't like to list them 1 through 4, but rather in a 2x2 matrix. But since I'm limited here, here we go.
The four areas are (and these aren't original by any means)
1. Love God
2. Love People
3. Serve Locally
4. Serve Globally
We give people an opportunity to learn, dig, discuss, and experience these four areas through sermons, small groups, and local and global ministry opportunities.
We just started it the first of the year so I can't really say how it is going to work out, but I love how it is working so far and the people are responding to it better than anything else I've ever done.
I'm chiming in late on this discipleship discussion. A lot of really good things have been said:
--How discipleship happens in different ways, both organic and programmed.
--How we need to be intentional in the quest to make disciples.
--That a disciple is moving it from head to heart and learning the Way of Jesus.
--That discipleship requires at least two people, and often happens best in a community context.
I think one of Dan's early posts contained an important question: What is a disciple? To answer this question, you really have to wrestle with what you think Jesus came to bring us. I think evangelicals have suffered with a lack of definition for discipleship because much of our gospel has been about getting forgiven and getting to heaven. I would suggest that God's forgiveness kicks the door open to the new life, and eternity is where it takes us eventually, but that discipleship is primarily concerned with what happens inbetween these two, with who we become on the road home.
This is what I have been wrestling with the last couple years: What is Jesus after in our lives? To use a bit of Dallas Willard verbage, what does it look like to "apprentice" in Jesus way of seeing and living? Maybe if we can find and articulate better answers to that question we can let "what it is" spill out in intentional efforts at community and discipleship, and also watch it spill out in all the informal places.
Bob Roberst has said to us pastors, "You can preach beyond where you are in your own life, but you can't disciple beyond where you are in your own life." This suggests that to "make disciples", I must know what an apprentice of Jesus looks like and become one: to try to see like him and live the way he teaches. I am more aware than ever these days that it really starts in me... the most important thing I can do if I want to make disciples is choose to be in communion with God and to live my life today in the way of Jesus-- my choices, my conversations, my private thoughts and wrestlings, my actions with others. I hope I am becoming a deeper and richer and more constant apprentice of our amazing Lord Jesus.
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