More Exponential Conference Podcasts

I listened to two more podcast interviews - one with Pastor Bob Roberts and the other with Pastor Andy Stanley. If you are looking for something to engage and challenge you, I would recommend both of these 30 minute interviews. Below are links and some notes. I think I'll listen to both of them again, and make further notes in comments.

Bob Roberts -- A few years ago, I actually felt some prompting from the Holy Spirit to seek this guy out. At the time, I knew nothing about him. And he has become very influential in my thinking.

I'll have to listen again but he said traditionally, we start with the gospel, find a church planter, start a church, and look for people to convert. But Biblically and what they do in the East (think China as opposed to Philadephia) is start with the gospel, find a disciple, engage their domain (work, family, ...), and then they see a conversion within that domain. Then they start churches because they have so many Christians rather than the other way around.

This doubled my desire to emphasize discipleship over anything else.

Andy Stanley - First, I appreciated his honesty about how his church started. (Roberts too. These guys didn't make their church starts sound like the immaculate conception as I've heard other pastors do.)

Stanley talked mostly about systems, though he didn't describe any specific system in their church. If you don't have systems, you can't multiply. I first heard about systems from Steve Ogne at a CMTC Bootcamp. I had not remembered ever hearing anything like that before. The idea of systems sounded too manipulative for my closer to postmodern ears. I didn't want to "funnel" anyone into anything. But after 15 years of experience, systems don't funnel, they give opportunity, and without them, people are confused.

Glenn Smith sat with me at Texas Roadhouse and wrote out on a 'Rate our Restaurant' card three systems that every church must have. I don't have the card in front of me so I may not be using his terminology.

<-------------Prospecting - Inviting Unchurched People --------->
<-------------Assimilating - Finding a place the new person --------->
<-------------Leadership Development --------->

People jump from one system to the next, though not everyone will of course. And churches that have become the most reproductive have learned that their leaders have to come out of the other systems or else they are sterile.

Stanley said his staff read "The Fifth Discipline" early on. Also the E-Myth.