We Believe
Hello, I’m new to the blog, but I am a friend of Bill’s. I thought this would be a good time to contribute and respond to the We Believe issue. I trust my thoughts are worthy.
I might sound negative in my assertion, I believe pragmatic would be a better term, but I don’t think the average Joe or Jane in pews care one iota about We Believe. I say this for a couple reasons. I’ve been a member of a COG for close to 30 years and have taught Sunday School classes for over 25 years. I have used We Believe to help define and refine what the COG positions are on various doctrinal issues as they relate to Scripture. Most of the time this is met with casual indifference I never get the sense that many people know or study We Believe to get a better understanding of what the COG believes. I think for most people it’s far more important to know, study, and believe God’s Word and apply it accordingly to their lives, than to be aware of denominational distinctions found in We Believe.
I believe most believers shy away from and are even intimidated by the term doctrine. When one hears the term doctrine, the immediate perception is that of making faith too complicated or too scholarly. Most people in the pews do not have time for religion that makes them think. They feel that life is too complex as it is, and faith between God and them should be simple. Using terms such as sanctification, justification, and regeneration are impressive concepts for the pastor to use and know, but they don’t hold much meaning for the average believer. This is because most churchgoers today are interested in a faith that makes them “feel” good as opposed to a faith that causes them to think too deeply.
We Believe does have merit in a new members class to help potential new members understand the difference between the COG and other denominations such as the Methodists, Presbyterians, Lutherans, and Mennonites etc. However, I don’t believe We Believe has much influence in deciding whether a person becomes a member of a COG church. Church membership has far more to do with the fellowship within the body of believers, and the church acting like the body of Christ than the doctrinal stance of We Believe.
In addition, I believe We Believe should contain a more on the history of John Winebrenner and how he came to begin the Churches of God (by the way according to Winebrenner the only true name for the church). Having an understanding of why Winebrenner believed what he believed can help us better establish our identity, in a time when many denominations want to downplay what makes them unique.
posted by da at 8:43 AM
8 Comments:
Dave,
Welcome.
I've had some email exchanges about my threads off the blog. One comment I've received in that forum has been that WE BELIEVE is a teaching tool. And, in light of that, you make a good point.
It's not the kind of document that would inspire much learning, now it is?
Now, something like Winebrenner's 27 points--each a clear, concise, positive one sentence declaration in nontheological language with a handful of appropriate Scripture references--THAT would be an outstanding teaching tool!
I'd chomp at the bit to teach that.
Dave,
You say,
Most people in the pews do not have time for religion that makes them think...most churchgoers today are interested in a faith that makes them “feel” good as opposed to a faith that causes them to think too deeply.
Jesus said,
"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters—yes, even his own life—he cannot be my disciple."
Do you think that the people you described are actually disciples of Jesus?
In reference to the above comment I can only tell you about the small gathering I have. The VAST majority are under 25. In prior posts I discussed how we are more interactive with Q&A right after the sermon and questions allowed during the sermon. We also now meet a juice bar after service to talk about the direction of the church. The sermon topics these kids are interested in are about how this whole atonement thing works (what does the cross and rez mean and how does that work?), they also want me to go into sin and what it means that we are born into sin and dig deeply into the seven deadly sins and how, if possible, they are addressed by Jesus. They are also very interested in more narrowly defining who we are and what our core is and how to better reflect that to others.
I have a few dozen kids who do believe that not only what we talk about on sundays and at our other meetings matter, but the core of who we are and what we claim to be important matters. If I told them tomorrow I was interested in having LifeBridge join the CGGC, you would have a bunch of teens and young adults going over it with a fine tooth comb and asking some very hard and honest questions and expressing concerns. I guess what I am saying is that there are some out there in the next generation that feel this does matter and it is more than feeling good and being part of a swell community. :)
Cheers and love to all!
Patrick
That’s a good question Bill. I see in the people who I described as being believers who are good church members, but have limited understanding of what discipleship is. What I mean is that they are more interested in their involvement in the week-to-week activities of the local church than having an eternal impact on the Kingdom. Also, I see more of an interest in using the Bible as a supplement to teaching curriculum and programs instead of the foundation of sound doctrinal teaching and application. One of the characteristics of a disciple is found in 1 Peter 3:18, where Peter states; But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever!
I am a member of a church within the CGGC, and not a leader. Before joining that church I read the WE BELIEVE statement and found it to be acceptable, though certainly not impressive.
I suspect few of the church membership have actually read it, and how important is it really. It seems that many leaders just pay it lip service anyway. This movement (The Way) was started by God and His Word. As one who loves God, I would love to be a part of a group that uses the Word of God as the sole basis for fulfilling its mission for God’s glory, without adding to, or summarizing, or contextualizing, the Bibles affect on its beliefs.
If the CGGC is going to effectively make more and better disciples and proclaim the gospel around the world, then it better have the entire Bible as its creed. While I am very pleased to see this discussion it demonstrates the waste of energy in institutions. Jesus set forth all we need to know in-order to fulfill our mission. Instead of trying to determine what is a creed, do we need one, is it good or bad, what kind of statements of faith and beliefs are necessary, why don’t we try following Jesus and the leading of the Spirit. Am I a simplistic fool? This debate, no matter how it comes to completion, will have absolutely no effect on what I BELIEVE; it will have a negligible effect on everyone else in the CGGC. It will have no effect on the truth of the Word.
No document is going to make disciples. Jesus was not an institutional, let’s get it down on paper, kind of guy. He went out and worked for God, showing His love and teaching face to face. Paul worked by addressing what was pressing matters and wrote letters on how to live; he did not write theological papers to prove how much he understood God and His plan. He wrote not what you should believe but how belief was the only way to life. What the gospels tell us of Jesus demonstrates that He did not expect anyone to understand the intricacies of faith and obedience immediately. He did not write out a statement of key points for his followers to agree or disagree with upfront. Any statements need only be very basic because the full truth will only be passed on by going forth and exposing people to the Truth of God. Is that not the mission of the CGGC?
Dave,
Next time we do lunch, I'll invite Adrien, if you like.
You two will get along famously.
Adrien,
I couldn’t agree with you more. As I posted earlier, We Believe has a place as a document because it states our beliefs and distinctiveness as a denomination. In no way do I see it as means of promoting discipleship. Discipleship is the process of becoming more Christ-like through the leading of the Holy Spirit and adherence to the Word of God.
You use the word institution to describe the current state of the church; I’ll use the word organization. Both terms seem to denote a body that is not Spirit filled and alive. I prefer to see the church not as an organization but an organism, a living body with Christ as the Head.
Bill,
That sounds like fun. I look forward to it.
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