Monday, January 23, 2012

This blog will end in 9 days

Passionate conversation about substitutionary atonement. Not much talk of what's next.


Blogger bill Sloat said...


Apart from Paul, there was not much talk about taking the gospel to the Gentiles in the Book of Acts.

I trust that you are correct that being the administrator of this blog is no longer His calling for you. Believe me, if I felt facilitating future conversation was His call on my life, I'd do it in a heart beat. I sincerely hope that He will call someone to create a means through which this conversation can continue. If He does, I hope that person/people will be faithful to that calling.

I despair for the future of the CGGC. But, I really despair for its future without this conversation.

1/23/2012 10:44 AM  
Blogger Brent C Sleasman said...

Independent of the end of this blog I've been looking at ways to expand the conversation on our adoption blog. One of the items that I will be doing is inviting some people who have adoption stories to tell to contribute to our blog as guest authors. My second idea could impact the future of some of the conversations that have taken place on this blog.

I am open to expanding our adoption blog to be a forum for conversations such as the one currently taking place regarding the contemporary emphasis on community within the evangelical church. If there are some who are interested in migrating to that blog on occasion I will be happy to post a summary of the conversation so far and encourage more conversation within the comments. Also, I am open to accepting posts by guest authors on concerns related to adoption.

If all goes according to my understanding, I've written an article that will appear in the next Church Advocate exploring ways to mobilize the CGGC for orphan care. I have extremely modest expectations about the number of people who may follow one of the suggestions and join the conversation on our blog, but it could invite a few new voices into the conversation.

Let me know if you have any interest in carrying on some conversation at

Also, I am open to making some administrative changes on that blog if it would better facilitate conversation.

1/23/2012 11:08 AM  
Blogger Dan Masshardt said...


I'm looking forward to following your blog and possibly engaging more there.

I can't help but think that your focus, even widened some, is too narrow for the breadth of conversation we have / could have here.

Truthfully, I think you are doing something important there with your adoption blog.

Personally, I would love to continue to explore with you the biblical concepts of family compared to the current fascination with community at you blog.

1/24/2012 10:21 PM  
Blogger walt said...

i'm currently in the works of setting up a forum for us to jump to when this blog 'sinks' on the 1st. any input/assistance would be appreciated.

i'll try my darndest to get that forum up and running by the 1st. is there any chance of an extension of a week or so, if for nothing more than to make a smoother transition?

1/24/2012 10:58 PM  
Blogger Dan Masshardt said...

walt- let me know how to help.

1/25/2012 7:57 AM  
Blogger bill Sloat said...

From walt:

i'm currently in the works of setting up a forum for us to jump to when this blog 'sinks' on the 1st. any input/assistance would be appreciated.

Bless you, bro!

I'll assist and support you any way I can.

1/25/2012 8:36 AM  
Blogger Brian said...

the blog 'sinks'

The Mayans predicted the end of this blog long before Nostradamus predicted the end of this blog.

Yes, Walt, I'll give you another week.

1/25/2012 9:10 AM  
Blogger bill Sloat said...


Thanks for granting walt and us the stay.

It is true that "love is patient, love is kind..."

1/25/2012 9:18 AM  
Blogger Brent C Sleasman said...


I agree. The focus of our adoption blog is much too narrow to provide a forum for all the topics discussed here. But, there are some topics that could work there and I'll be happy to provide the space to discuss them. Also, if someone would like to post as a guest-author I'll be glad to provide a forum for that discussion as well.

My goal is that sometime over the next week I'll post something specific that engages some of themes discussed here. When I do, I'll post an invitation here and encourage any who want to join that conversation to do so.

Thanks for the encouragement about our adoption blog. I agree that it is something important. That is one of the reasons I want to keep it fairly narrowly focused. There are some related issues that we can discuss there, although there will be many topics that will fit better somewhere else.

1/25/2012 3:25 PM  
Blogger walt said...

hey all,
one thing i'd like some help working out in moving to a forum format is how to categorize subforums. in other words, how do we break down some of the discussion topics we have here in to (relatively) separate categories, so that the forum is easier to navigate.

i think that the very format of forums will help with the way we function here, because in that format threads are less easily buried, and thus conversations can be continued and branched easier, without worry of getting lost in the sauce of other conversations.

however, for that to be effective, we need an effective way of splitting up the larger branches of conversation on here. for instance, the conversation over atonement theory and previous conversations on leadership methodology would likely be in separate categories. however, the conversation on leadership and on what we do when we gather would likely be more closely linked, and thus in the same subforum.

any suggestions on ways to break it down?

1/25/2012 5:12 PM  
Blogger Dan Masshardt said...

Brent - Let me know. I'd be happy to jump into a conversation on your blog.

Walt - here are some possible category ideas that I've thought about (I don't expect you to use them but maybe a couple will make sense). I'd imagine that you would set the structure and others could post subtopics?


1. Missional Challenges - a place where people could share their struggles as they seek to live Jesus' way .

2. Exegisis - probably call it something else, but I think it would be great to have a place where we could study and think through challenging passages of Scripture together. If the Bible is so important to us, we should have a place to really discuss it.

3. Leadership = a place to explore calling and leadership in the local church and beyond.

4. History - a place where we could discuss the history of the CGGC as well as perhaps larger issues of church history.

4. Theology - a place to discuss the connection between theology and mission etc.

5. Announcements - local meetups, events, converences etc.

??6. Introduce yourself - a place to offer a little bit of each of our stories and current settings.

1/25/2012 9:30 PM  
Blogger Brent C Sleasman said...


The choice to give a week extension is Brian's to give. But, if someone had asked me, I would have said "no way!" - and here's why.

You requested the extension to assist with a "smoother transition." Honestly, I think the last thing you want is a smooth transition. Let's be honest about this blog - now that the atonement conversation has died down, only three or four people post (and that's only on occasion). Once this blog is closed, I won't be making the move to the new forum, at least not as an active reader/contributor. It's nothing personal, I'm just trying to keep focused on a few new emerging projects. Reading Brian's comments, he may not make the transition either. So, that leaves two or three people to migrate to the new forum.

My suggestion would have been to kill this blog and celebrate the end. Then, at an appropriate time, start something entirely new that isn't just an extension of a dead blog.

These questions are intended to help you think through the transition:

- what will be different about the new forum?
- how will these differences either re-engage those who dropped out here or gain new readers?
- who is the primary audience?
- what kind of promotion will you have to announce the new blog?

Keep in mind, when Brian launched this blog six or so years ago, he was well-connected within the CGGC.

You're going to invest too much time in setting this up to only have the few voices left post their thoughts.

In light of these thoughts, the last thing you should want is a smooth transition...

1/26/2012 6:23 AM  
Blogger Brent C Sleasman said...

Thanks, Dan. I'll post something here to alert you to starting a new and relevant conversation.

1/26/2012 6:24 AM  
Blogger Dan Masshardt said...

Brent - I'll such you back in by mentioning adoption :-)

good things to think about in your other comments. I think one of the biggest things is that the name can't have anything to do with this blog.

If the topics are widened in the way I think walt might go, I will be promoting this new forum significantly.

1/26/2012 6:38 AM  
Blogger Dan Masshardt said...

Sorry for the typo. I'll suck you back in, not 'such.'

I'm sure you figured it out from the context. Unfortunately, I don't think it's possible to edit comments after the fact.

1/26/2012 7:23 AM  
Blogger bill Sloat said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

1/26/2012 9:15 AM  
Blogger bill Sloat said...


I think Dan's categories are useful.


I look forward the new forum. Brent is correct that few participate on this blog these days. Based on the number of off-the-blog conversations I have about what I post here, it's clear to me that many still lurk. While there may be fewer lurkers on a new site, I think there will still be a testimony in a new forum.

And, I wonder about the future of the CGGC if there is not forum for forward-thinking conversation.

1/26/2012 9:52 AM  
Blogger Brian said...

Bill said, "And, I wonder about the future of the CGGC if there is not forum for forward-thinking conversation."

Listen, you are part of the CGGC. So are Dan and Dan and Walt and Brent. If you start a CGGC Forward Thinking forum then there is CGGC Forward Thinking Forum.

I started this blog without permission and received "recognition" every time I asked.

I would suggest somebody ask.

1/26/2012 9:03 PM  
Blogger dan horwedel said...

Since you mentioned my name, I'm not sure I agree with your assessment. It seems to me that when you started this blog there was a request made for a place where "forward thinkers" could converse (from Wayne). I don't get any sense that there is a desire for that in our denomination at this point. In fact, to be honest, I don't get much of a sense of anything anymore. I wouldn't really even know who to ask if I did have a question. The atmosphere is not at all the same now as when this blog was started (imho). I'm with Bill on this one. Not that it really matters.

1/26/2012 10:37 PM  
Blogger walt said...

i recall you saying that one of the main reasons for your closing the blog was you're feeling called elsewhere and not having time to devote to this. some have infered from that you will have little to no involvement with whatever comes next. if that's true, i'm sorry, as your input has significantly impacted my own growth.

in any case, i would welcome any comments or insights on your part regarding what comes next. do you feel its something worth having anymore? if you had the time, what would you see/do moving forward?

1/27/2012 8:37 AM  
Blogger walt said...

dan h.,
as someone who has been among the relatively faithful here, what are your thoughts on going forward? your participation seems to have dwindled of late; what would you see as worth being involved in?

1/27/2012 8:38 AM  
Blogger dan horwedel said...

I appreciate you asking for my opinion. To be honest, I don't really know that I care anymore (or it's getting very tiring trying to make myself).

I confess to liking this blog because of the potential for relationships. I'm not here to debate whose theology is correct, or to try to tell anyone else how to think, or to try to get denominational money for my latest project or idea... I really just wanted some people to hang out with. And, yes, I think that can be done online as well as in person.

However, I've heard enough people bash that as somehow being unchristian, or an invalid reason, that it really doesn't make me feel too welcome. And I know I'm pretty timid and easily offended, but... that's how it is.

I serve in a region where there is virtually no interaction. I've complained about it before, I've tried to offer solutions, and I'm basically told that I'm just too hard to please and "things could always be worse." So, yes, I am frustrated by the closing of this blog. I'm sure I could change my mind, but I don't really see that I'll be involved in anything moving forward.

That said, I have appreciated getting to know all of you. I think relationships do matter. There were times I was greatly frustrated by some of these interactions, but I have also learned a lot and met some great people. I'm sad to see this end.

Peace and blessings,

1/27/2012 9:24 AM  
Blogger bill Sloat said...


Listen, you are part of the CGGC. So are Dan and Dan and Walt and Brent. If you start a CGGC Forward Thinking forum then there is CGGC Forward Thinking Forum.

I'm not certain how to take the tone of what you have written. If you took me to be critical of your decision to end the blog, please forgive me for giving you that impression.

I am thankful for this blog and for the fact that you created it and for all you have done to facilitate its existence over the years. That you have decided to move on is understandable to me. To the extent that I have the ability to do so, I bless your decision.

I've spoken many times of the historic import of what you have done in facilitating this conversation. You provided to those who wanted it the most powerful resource in exciting passion for truth that the Church of God has had since the early days of The Church Advocate. While Winebrenner was the first editor, he didn't remain so forever.

I thank you for giving us this blog.

I am chagrinned that, while the CA provided a spreading fire for discussion of and intersifying love for truth in our church, in our current church culture, the same benefit has not been realized through this blog, though I believe many people lurk just as they read the Advocate without contributing to it. You did what you could and you did it very well.

I thank you and bless you for that. On the day that we all appear before the judgment seat of Christ and receive what is due us for the things done while in the body whether good or bad, I am convinced that you will receive blessing and reward for this blog.

Thank you,


1/27/2012 9:39 AM  
Blogger bill Sloat said...


I have also noticed a lack of interest in things of the future.

Wayne was a visionary.

I remember one day when he met with me as my Pastoral Care Worker and we began talking about what I was studying. It was shortly after I did some work on trying to grasp what Einstein's Special and General Theories of Relativity and Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle teach us about the God who created the universe they describe. I was--AM--thrilled by the implications. And, Wayne, already well into the throws of cancer, having dedicated his life to pastoring in the modern era, sat across from me, his eyes twinkling, trying to internalize what I was throwing at him at the speed of light--no pun intended.

When we parted that day, he cried out to me from a
distance, "Bill!" I turned around and walked back to him. He just said, "Don't stop thinking! Don't stop thinking!"

He's the only CGGC person who's ever given me that encouragement--except Evelyn. Usually, I am condemned for it, if anything.

Times have changed.

Please make the journey with us to the new forum.

Re (on the CGGC): In fact, to be honest, I don't get much of a sense of anything anymore.

As far as thinking is concerned? I'm not sure that there is anything. I wouldn't say "anymore," but I would say, "at least for now."

It's not lost on me that we are getting nowhere in revising the Doctrinal Statement of the Churches of God, General Conference. I take that to mean that, at least for now, nothing IS going on.

But, I'd love for someone to convince me otherwise.

1/27/2012 9:56 AM  
Blogger ps1226 said...

Having at one point been a part of the rewriting project and having written the first draft on Escatology I feel qualified to make a few observation.
First the project is moot. The title should not be WE BELIEVE. It should be Some of us think. That is the best we can home for. Long ago we forsoke the basic premise that the Bible is the final rule for all matters of the faith and practice. There is nothing the CGGC is willing are able to say and affirm "Thus saith the Lord" and have more then a concensus for. If I were to say Man is a sinner. Someone would parse the word "is". Another "Man". Long ago I stopped writing to the blog not because I did not see the intent as useful but rather came away feeling the entirity of the CGGC and the blog was findling while Rome is Burning. That is why I am not involved with the rewriting project any more.
We are discussing, debating, use your own term issues on a level most in the pews need a dictionary to understand and the world is going to Hell in a handbasket. I know I am a relic. But I suggest If the leadership can not come to basic foundational truth the ones in the pew never will. The
demise of the attendence and the CGGC is easily evaluated. You reap what you sow. For years we have sow potatoes and now wonder why we aren't getting a harvest of corn. Plant as many fields as you want you'll only get more potatoes. Einstiens definition of insainity applys here. When we get straight and agree universally What saith the Lord we start getting the harvest we got when we did before.

1/27/2012 7:51 PM  
Blogger bill Sloat said...


I agree with you about the state of the denomination but not that the blog is a waste of time. If all I did was come here to talk about repentance and the centrality of truth you would be correct but what I write here I write from my own experience. What I talk about here, I do. There's nothing that I put in print here that is not a reflection of what is being put into practice in our ministry.

And, I believe that what I say about myself and the congregation I meet with is true of other bloggers here and their own ministries. That we are voices crying in the wilderness is not our fault. It is the fault of those who walk blindly and who, like the Scribes and Pharisees of Jesus' day, "have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe their own traditions."

Don't blame us for caring. Blame them because they don't care.

When the first draft of We Believe 2.0 was released, I offered, in many more words than you, a critique of it very similar to yours.

Check it out:

I've been saying for a long time that our Pastor-as-Priest leadership culture, AKA the Shepherd Mafia, has created a "Can we all just get along" value system in which moderation, modesty and measured speech and thought are core values and that truth stopped mattering in the CGGC shortly after the first WB began to dominate.

There is no truth core for us any longer. John predicted of the Messiah:

"His winnowing fork is in his hand and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire," not "Can we all just get along?"

And we have no room for that sort of savior in the CGGC. We have no room for ministry based in truth and we don't accept the call to a lifestyle of repentance.

So, to say, "We Believe" is a lie, not that we wouldn't claim to believe something anyway but there's no longer a core that enough of us can claim. There was as recently as the 1980s. There is no longer. The death of truth for us is the child of the last Doctrinal Statement.

I come here--and I go everywhere--calling for repentance. And, I get the response that Elijah got. As you do.

Don't let the buggers win, Stan. Be careful not to bury your talent.

1/28/2012 9:13 AM  
Blogger ps1226 said...

Thank you for letting me vent. I know my typing and spelling are a mess, sometimes my fingers won't keep up with my head. I have been in essence put out to pasture. Out of sight out of mind. My voice is not appreciated and I have no doubt that most, Perhaps not all but most are happier that my seat is empty. I have been attacked and left by the way. I grieve not for myself. I grieve for my family and the devestation on them. I grieve for those who will never hear the clear sound of the trumpet so they can respond. I grieve over the efforts of so many in the past whose legacy and committment is slowly being eroded away by megaegos hungry for control and power.
The blog I take it will end. Byron said I have not loved the world nor the world me but let us part fair foes....I do believe, though I have seen them not that two or maybe one are almost what they seem.
The future in in His hands not Pope KR or the vatican in Harrisburg or Findlay. Be assured they all read and know what we write. He I stand, I can not do elsewise.
Hold on, Jesus is coming, Maranatha!!

1/28/2012 6:26 PM  
Blogger Brian said...

Hey Walt,

I didn't see your post till this afternoon. I spent the weekend in Evansville IN with about 25 people who were interested in gathering to focus on discipleship and multiplication.

There were some denominational people there, some potential church planters, a recent church planter and some of his leaders. There were some college age guys there. There were some twenty somethings looking to see what was next.

It wasn't slick (in fact it was kind of rough). But as far as I could see, it was really healthy. I built in time for people to hang out and tried to create new relationships.

So I guess I'd say I would trade 6 years of this blog for 2 days in Evansville. I hope to do more of this.

I will have a blog with this Grassroots piece in the next few months.

I'm also dedicating myself to the "newest fad" of coaching. I think we've failed to build leaders and instead we just talk and talk. So I hope to build leaders.

The Grassroots piece is generally more in my geographic area, but I'm open to it being more broad.

It seems like I've been asked whether I'm staying focused within the denomination and the answer is "yes and..."

1/29/2012 1:34 PM  
Blogger Dan Masshardt said...

The Verge Network is a good example of an in-person annual event with a web presence throughout the year.

It seems to me that a lot more can happen in person, but a web-based presence continues discussions that are started in person and can build excitement and participation for future in-person meetings.

Brian, if a gathering similar to the one you had were to take place in PA, I'd surely be there.

Also, I think that having video recorded can amplify the discussion.

1/29/2012 6:26 PM  
Blogger walt said...

so brian, i want to make sure i'm reading you right. would your advice be to give up on the idea of a new online thing and do more on-the-ground in-person kind of things?

1/29/2012 7:21 PM  
Blogger bill Sloat said...


Previously, you have said that you are not a prophet or the son of a prophet.


I'm sure you know by now that I take Ephesians 4:13 seriously and literally and that I believe that "until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ" that He will gift His Body with apostles, prophets, evangelists, shepherds and teachers.

Believing that, I can see in you the call to be a prophet. In the many years I allowed myself to be cowed by the Christendomites, I watched with great admiration as you served as the only meaningful prophetic voice in the ERC and East Penn Conference and I thanked God for you, though at the time, I didn't understand.

I am concerned that, these days, you are allowing yourself to be cowed by the Shepherd Mafia thugs in Harrisburg. Throughout the history of God's people--when the Shepherd Mafia had the authority of the Magistrate at its beck and call, people like you were drawn and quartered or burned at the stake and they went to their end with determination and, often, with joy.

Don't give in. Don't let yourself be silenced. Please.

If your health no long permits a vigorous prophetic life, that's one issue. But, if you can still raise your voice for truth and you don't...

...well, I know the Parable of the Talents and so do you. Don't let the Shepherd Mafia silence you. Your call and ministry are from the Lord. There is actualy evil in their loyalty to their own traditions which are not based in truth.

1/30/2012 8:59 AM  
Blogger bill Sloat said...


I caught that 'newest fad of coaching' comment.

I regret that you haven't engaged me in conversation about it.

My questions to you remain:

How do you see someone not gifted as an apostle doing it?

How do you see a prophet, such as myself, doing it?

How do you see shepherds doing it?

Don't misunderstand me. I can see in 21st century America much good being done by men and women called to be apostles doing what Bill Belichick does. What I have asked you is how you envision everyone who is called with all five leadership gifts being coaches.

I'm not even saying that they can't be. At this point, no one I know of who's embraced the coaching model and who is not called to be an apostle has succeeded in it. Myself included.

Please. Engage me.

1/30/2012 9:08 AM  
Blogger bill Sloat said...

Also, Brian,

So I guess I'd say I would trade 6 years of this blog for 2 days in Evansville. I hope to do more of this.

I can't see why this has to be an either/or. It seems to me that we are in the era of both/and.

1/30/2012 1:17 PM  
Blogger Brian said...


Brian, if a gathering similar to the one you had were to take place in PA, I'd surely be there. Also, I think that having video recorded can amplify the discussion.

I think you would have liked it Dan. The advantage of a weekend is the focus. I'm sure I exaggerated when I said I would rather have spent two days in Evansville than 6 years on this blog (sorry for the exaggeration). There is something about face to face.

It also allowed people to come with their pastor/leader and be exposed in a positive way.

It was my instinct to tape everything, but I do wonder the best way to use the resource. I did tape Lance's talk. I thought it was exceptional.

1/30/2012 1:17 PM  
Blogger bill Sloat said...


It was my instinct to tape everything, but I do wonder the best way to use the resource. I did tape Lance's talk. I thought it was exceptional.

I would love to hear what Lance said.

1/30/2012 1:22 PM  
Blogger Brian said...


So brian, i want to make sure i'm reading you right. would your advice be to give up on the idea of a new online thing and do more on-the-ground in-person kind of things?

The question is "What is your goal for this blog?"

My goal for this blog is not to maintain relationships, but for me and others to be more effective in expanding the Kingdom of God.

Moreover, I have a goal to help the CGGC be better at creating an atmosphere for people to be more effective in expanding the Kingdom of God through discipleship, leadership, and multiplication.

I believe that this blog has run it's course of effectiveness.

If your goal is to create a space where a few can have dialogue, then you should start a new space. I think multiple topic threads is overkill.

If your goal is to engage the CGGC in the issues that need to be addressed, I do not think a similar online space will be effective.

I think MLI will be effective.

I think geographic weekend gatherings could be effective.

I hope that creating an identity with Grassroots I will be effective.

I hope that creating coaching opportunities will be effective.

I hope that the online presence I create with Grassroots and Coaching will be effective.

1/30/2012 1:37 PM  
Blogger Dan Masshardt said...

I don't think that an online anything will likely be massively paradigm shifting.

What I think it will do is give cohesion to people yearning to be more faithful / missional etc. and wanting help and camaraderie along the way.

Also, I think it can be helpful for practical wisdom of working it out along the way. This this reason, I think a forum would be fruitful.


I'm curious to see what your grassroots online presence will be like. Are you interested in partnering with others in different areas to bring to have similar gatherings in different places or is it mainly local to your area?

I believe it would be fruitful to make this talks available. Even if not the same as being there in person, who's to say that it couldn't make a real impact beyond that setting? If it ends with those who gathered there, it will surely be fruitful. But why not multiply the impact?

1/30/2012 1:51 PM  
Blogger Brian said...


I have not engaged in the coaching questions yet.

My "newest fad" piece was not meant to be a poke, but in fact a recognition that it is in fact a new fad. I hope an effective one.

You ask great questions to which I don't know all the answers. I'm going to start exploring.

Thank you for giving me some APEST handles to consider. I am very interested in finding the answers to these questions.

1/30/2012 1:53 PM  
Blogger ps1226 said...

I agree Paul went to the gentiles and called himself the Apostle to them, but it was Peter who took the Gospel to Cornelius and saw the sheet effectively sending the message to include them.Do you not think that he when he declared "I perceive that God is no respector of person" he was not speaking to that truth? Or that Barnabas and Mark went to gentiles after the seperation from Paul. Where did the foundations for the eastern church come from if not them. Pauls efforts are indeed enumerated more specifically but the others are there as well,
Rhank you for your kind word's but I think I should have been a monk. Thats where my heart is. You are absolutely right I have no heart or gift for shepherding or evangelism. I feel much akin to Isaiah, Preach but know it will fall on deaf ears.The hard part is living on bird food like Elijah. It is O.K. for the prophet buut doesn't take care of his family. Thank you for you kind words. Sorry I got in at the end. Let me know if there is any place you think I would fit in.

1/30/2012 4:28 PM  
Blogger walt said...

quick straw poll: any thoughts on a new name? particularly, should this new forum be affiliated with/named for the cggc in any way?

1/30/2012 8:51 PM  
Blogger Dan Masshardt said...

No real thoughts on the new name.

While I think it's probably important to keep our body in view, it might be better to not have it be a prominent part of the name. I don't know...

1/31/2012 7:59 AM  
Blogger bill Sloat said...

From Brian: My "newest fad" piece was not meant to be a poke, but in fact a recognition that it is in fact a new fad. I hope an effective one.

It's new and it's not new.


I wish people had a greater understanding of how what we are thinking and saying and doing is connected to the past.

Ecclesiastes is correct. There IS nothing new under the sun.

As I've been thinking about your passion for coaching, I've had several thoughts.

1. It's a fad only to the degree that it will be based on the idea that other church fad have been based on, i.e., that it is a one-size-fits-all answer to each and every problem we face. I don't know yet if you think that.

Surely, everyone can be coached. But, if your idea is to turn everyone into a coach, I'm not sure APEST supports that--at least in an all encompassing way.

Apostles can be coaches. It's not hard to see Jesus coaching the Twelve to be coaches. But, He didn't do that with all of his followers. It seems, from Acts and Paul's letters, that Paul coached a bunch of people to be coaches but, even then, Paul chose only a select few to do that.

What you are beginning will be faddish if you think that you can turn everyone into a coach. At least, that's what I see in the Word and it's what I have learned from my own experience.

2. What you are attempting--as I understand it--bears a great similarity to the beginning of the Methodist movement that was so revolutionary nearly 300 years ago. It's not all that new. What you seem to be wanting to do has some pretty similar precedents. You might even want to skim through a few good books on John Wesley and early Methodism. The level of success they achieved was monumental and, well, historic.

3. I have wondered for a long time if prophets weren't coached by other prophets in the Old and New Testament alike. Acts 11 talks about 'some prophets' going down from Jerusalem to Antioch as a group of self-identified prophets. My guess is that there was, in Jerusalem, a 'school of prophets' in the way there are 'schools' of fish. I can't see myself coaching in the way you envision it, but I also doubt that you can coach a prophet to be a prophet. I suspect that only other prophets can do that.

1/31/2012 9:42 AM  
Blogger bill Sloat said...

From Stan: Thank you for your kind word's but I think I should have been a monk.

What--in the WORD--is a monk?

No. You should have been and you should continue to function as a prophet, as long as the Lord gives you the strength.

Monks leave the world. We are commanded by Jesus to go into the world. You are doing what many prophets did--Elijah and Jeremiah prominently but all of us, I believe, from time to time--and giving in to the overwhelming sorrow and frustration that comes from having your messages from the Lord rejected.

Stan, that is par for the course. And, it may be your lot--as the Lord explained to Isaiah at the beginning--to speak to deaf ears. All you are responsible for is the speaking. The deafness is between the deaf and the one who will judge them.

My friend, you need to stand up again as tall and as confidently as you have ever stood and you need to cry out as loudly as you ever have. You, too, will stand before Him to be judged 'for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.' If you are able, you need to be a part of this Credentials thing. I know that you have been invited to do so. In my opinion, if you are physically able, not to do so will be sin.

1/31/2012 9:53 AM  

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